Dog breeding

[1BadRC51]

I have a male and a female but they are both fixed,, I'm looking to stud my bulldog though,, he has 3 champs in his 3 gen pedigree. :wtg:

[thehammer69]

I have a male and a female but they are both fixed,, I'm looking to stud my bulldog though,, he has 3 champs in his 3 gen pedigree. :wtg:

I'm sorry if this pisses you off.... but why? "Backyard breeding" (BB) of whatever breed the BB has because their animals happen to have a champion somewhere in their blood is what leads to all the genetic diseases and health issues that tend to befall purebreeds. A careful breeder would NEVER breed a dog based soley on it's ancestry. It would be chosen to be allowed to breed based on the achievements and merits of the dog itself. My opinion is that if you want o breed your dog (which is a poor reason for even wanting an animal), is to show it and see if he is actually a champion himkself. And if he does manage to become one, then the next step would be to take whatever steps necessary to determine your dogs genetic disposition to passing on bad genes. And once you feel comfortable after that, then maybe you should stud him out...to a bitch that has proven herself also. Otherwise you are just most likley contributing to the problem of bad purebreed dogs instead of being the solution to improving the breed. Afterall, their may be 3 champions in it's 3 generation pedigree, but their are also 11 non-champions. A true quality stud dog would have close to ALL champions.

To further my point... I have owned a few animals that had even more than three champions in it's 3 generation ancestry, yet I could probably find a flaw in all of them. It really is rare to have a true breeding quality dog...PLEASE give consideration to what I have said.

Hammer

[1BadRC51]

My dog is excellent with no defects whatsoever at almost 3 years old (and for a Bulldog, that's saying a lot) and I wouldn't breed him with just any old female in the world. He is just my dog, not a show dog and if I want to breed him there's nothing irresponsible about it if he has no health issues, I love how you assume that something is wrong with my dog and that I'd just breed him with any bitch with papers :roll:
When you spend $2000 on a dog that you've wanted your whole life there is nothing wrong with trying to get some $$ back responsibly not to mention I'd like to get a puppy from him seeing as how he is in my opinion one of the best looking and best behaving Bulldogs I have ever met.
But hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think a lot of humans shouldn't breed but that doesn't stop them...

[crash]

1badRC, you were right about my dog being an Elkhound. They only get to around 50 lbs generally.

[Nash]

RC, I do understand where you're coming from. You'd like to see more of your little guy running around and there's nothing wrong with that, but wanting a return out of your $2000 dog is a very common answer to backyard breeders. Since I don't know you and I don't want to judge you, I’ll just give you my opinion.

First, I too am a firm believer in letting the "pros" do the breeding. My Bichons are from a rescue and my Briard is from a reputable champion breeder. I spent many, many hours on the phone with breeders trying to find the right one. I thought long and hard about getting a puppy and not going with a rescue Briard. It was a hard decision. I've also worked at an SPCA and seen how many animals are put down each month; it's crazy and it's sad! Much of this could be stopped by several different ways including backyard breeders. Thing is, the average public doesn't care.

When people want to breed a dog, most of the time it's because of money and I feel that's the wrong way of thinking. I've spent ALOT of money on my Briard and I feel like I have already got that back and he's only been with us for 4 weeks. I do agree with Hammer, breeding should be done only make that particular breed better. That means trying to improve temperment, health, etc. and still staying within the breed standard. All most all of the breeders I talked with were competing with one another on which breeder produces the best dogs. This is shown by generations of health records, champions and positive "pet" temperaments. I'm sure you know most quality breeders only have one or two litters a year, sometimes less and most are not in it for the money. I'm not saying that all breeders aren't in it for money, but you can normally tell which ones are right away. Those are the ones I stayed away from.

By no means am I trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Like I said, it's my opinion and it's your dog. I know there are plenty of bulldogs sitting in the rescue looking for homes. Is it the buck or breed you care most about?

[1BadRC51]

No one spends $2000 on a dog that they don't love, never mind the $3000 I spent in surgery to get the 6 inch nylabone and tennis ball out of his stomach that the retard swallowed. He is the most lovable dog ever and he's the most athletic Bulldog I have ever known. He comes from DK Kennels in California and if you know anything about bulldogs you know they are the best. He is almost 3 years old and he's never been within a sniff of a female bulldog. He's an excellent specimen especially for a breed riddled with health problems. Getting some money back is just a bonus, his DNA shouldn't go to waste, I don't need judges to tell me he's great. I just don't like people preaching, you'll never meet anyone who loves dogs more than me, especially Bull breeds, they sleep with me, have full reign of my house, are basically treated just like family.

[thehammer69]

My dog is excellent with no defects whatsoever at almost 3 years old (and for a Bulldog, that's saying a lot) and I wouldn't breed him with just any old female in the world. He is just my dog, not a show dog and if I want to breed him there's nothing irresponsible about it if he has no health issues, I love how you assume that something is wrong with my dog and that I'd just breed him with any bitch with papers :roll:
When you spend $2000 on a dog that you've wanted your whole life there is nothing wrong with trying to get some $$ back responsibly not to mention I'd like to get a puppy from him seeing as how he is in my opinion one of the best looking and best behaving Bulldogs I have ever met.
But hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think a lot of humans shouldn't breed but that doesn't stop them...

I never assumed anything. I didn't say anything was wrong with him, but until you show him to provide confirmation, you are only making an assumption yourself. But anyway, I already prefaced my original post to you that I was sorry if I was gonna piss you off, because most BB's usually get that way when informed of proper breeding practices. I can't stop you from doing what you are gonna do, all I can do is provide information, and hope that you see it as good and logical advice.

Hammer

[thehammer69]

No one spends $2000 on a dog that they don't love, never mind the $3000 I spent in surgery to get the 6 inch nylabone and tennis ball out of his stomach that the retard swallowed. He is the most lovable dog ever and he's the most athletic Bulldog I have ever known. He comes from DK Kennels in California and if you know anything about bulldogs you know they are the best. He is almost 3 years old and he's never been within a sniff of a female bulldog. He's an excellent specimen especially for a breed riddled with health problems. Getting some money back is just a bonus, his DNA shouldn't go to waste, I don't need judges to tell me he's great. I just don't like people preaching, you'll never meet anyone who loves dogs more than me, especially Bull breeds, they sleep with me, have full reign of my house, are basically treated just like family.

DK kennels may put out the best...I don't know, but I will take your word for it. But that's just it, they have carefully selected breeding stock to produce a certain offspring. But as any professional breeder will tell you, that doesn't mean that offspring will be "gold" class breeders.

let me ask you something...what is the price range of all of DK's puppies?

Hammer

[Nash]

I just don't like people preaching, you'll never meet anyone who loves dogs more.

I guess we are sort of preaching, but we both speak with experience, and if you spent any extending amount of time at the SPCA, you might feel the same as we do. I wish more people treated their dogs the way you do, but we're still gonna nag you about breeding your bull! :smile

Also, it's in my contract that I have to neuter Pullo. So, no showing or breeding, EVER. That was never negotiable and that's the way it should be. Ever wonder why they do that?

[1BadRC51]

Nope, don't wonder, I'm not the ASPCA.
Ever wonder why they DON'T Neuter kids in orphanages? :lmao:

[Nash]

Ever wonder why they DON'T Neuter kids in orphanages? :lmao:


What do children have to do with dogs?

[thehammer69]

Some good reading:

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMillsVA/What_is_a_Backyard_Breeder_/what_is_a_backyard_breeder_.html

http://www.adoptarescuepet.org/byb.htm

Hammer

[thehammer69]

My dog is excellent with no defects whatsoever at almost 3 years old (and for a Bulldog, that's saying a lot)

Well maybe you should breed him then...as you are the only owner of a bulldog without faults. To quote the beginning of the fourth paragraph at his link: http://www.homestead.com/bulldogsworld2/SHOULDIBREED.html

"Once you have read and re-read the standard, try to make an honest assessment of your dog according to the standard. The perfect bulldog does not exist. Every bulldog has a fault of some kind. "

Hammer

[1BadRC51]

Ever wonder why they DON'T Neuter kids in orphanages? :lmao:


What do children have to do with dogs?


Your reasoning is that because orphaned dogs are orphaned then they should break the cycle by making sure said dogs can not reproduce. Why can't the same logic be extended to humans?
You can be uppity and call it backyard breeding or bullshit breeding bubba breeding or whatever cool nickname there may be but if it's my dog and I've waited 3 years to see if he's breed worthy and I carefully pick the mother and all potential owners there's nothing wrong with that. You don't know what I know about dogs or how much I care about dogs or whatever., So it really doesn't matter to me. I apreciate the input though. Even if it sounds kinda elitist. :wtg:

[1BadRC51]

My dog is excellent with no defects whatsoever at almost 3 years old (and for a Bulldog, that's saying a lot)

Well maybe you should breed him then...as you are the only owner of a bulldog without faults. To quote the beginning of the fourth paragraph at his link: http://www.homestead.com/bulldogsworld2/SHOULDIBREED.html

"Once you have read and re-read the standard, try to make an honest assessment of your dog according to the standard. The perfect bulldog does not exist. Every bulldog has a fault of some kind. "

Hammer

=D> =D>
Now you're arguing semantics. Way to go! :wave:

[1BadRC51]

My dog is excellent with no defects whatsoever at almost 3 years old (and for a Bulldog, that's saying a lot)

Well maybe you should breed him then...as you are the only owner of a bulldog without faults. To quote the beginning of the fourth paragraph at his link: http://www.homestead.com/bulldogsworld2/SHOULDIBREED.html

"Once you have read and re-read the standard, try to make an honest assessment of your dog according to the standard. The perfect bulldog does not exist. Every bulldog has a fault of some kind. "

Hammer

I love how people put up random links from the good 'ol intranet and think it's straight from the mouth of God. :lmao: :lol:

[Nash]

Ever wonder why they DON'T Neuter kids in orphanages? :lmao:


What do children have to do with dogs?


Your reasoning is that because orphaned dogs are orphaned then they should break the cycle by making sure said dogs can not reproduce. Why can't the same logic be extended to humans?
You can be uppity and call it backyard breeding or bullshit breeding bubba breeding or whatever cool nickname there may be but if it's my dog and I've waited 3 years to see if he's breed worthy and I carefully pick the mother and all potential owners there's nothing wrong with that. You don't know what I know about dogs or how much I care about dogs or whatever., So it really doesn't matter to me. I apreciate the input though. Even if it sounds kinda elitist. :wtg:

No, not elitist, a realist.

I have never bred dogs and I never intend to breed dogs. When 4 to 5 million cats and dogs are euthanized every year and someone claims they want to make a buck by breeding? Come on, how did you think we would react?

Back to nuetering. The main reason I recommend nuetering a dog is that unaltered dogs have a 50% chance of developing cancer, among other obvious reasons.

[Mike]

Back to nuetering. The main reason I recommend nuetering a dog is that unaltered dogs have a 50% chance of developing cancer, among other obvious reasons.

50%? Huh? Is that for purebreds or most/all dogs, male/female? That's a scary number...

[Nash]

That's all dogs, Mike. Yeah, one out of every two is a very scary number.

[1BadRC51]

Ever wonder why they DON'T Neuter kids in orphanages? :lmao:


What do children have to do with dogs?


Your reasoning is that because orphaned dogs are orphaned then they should break the cycle by making sure said dogs can not reproduce. Why can't the same logic be extended to humans?
You can be uppity and call it backyard breeding or bullshit breeding bubba breeding or whatever cool nickname there may be but if it's my dog and I've waited 3 years to see if he's breed worthy and I carefully pick the mother and all potential owners there's nothing wrong with that. You don't know what I know about dogs or how much I care about dogs or whatever., So it really doesn't matter to me. I apreciate the input though. Even if it sounds kinda elitist. :wtg:

No, not elitist, a realist.

I have never bred dogs and I never intend to breed dogs. When 4 to 5 million cats and dogs are euthanized every year and someone claims they want to make a buck by breeding? Come on, how did you think we would react?

Back to nuetering. The main reason I recommend nuetering a dog is that unaltered dogs have a 50% chance of developing cancer, among other obvious reasons.


Give me a break man,,, please. We're talking about English Bulldogs here not some mutt at the SPCA. This is a fuckin ridiculous conversation. By your reasoning even established breeders shouldn't breed dogs because there are so many homeless ones. Well guess what, most people don't want to bring home old dogs with all kinds of issues when you have other dogs and children in your house, you want a nice puppy that you can develop in to a good dog. I know as much or more about Bulldogs and Bull Breeds than anyone that you know. I wouldn't stud any dog for money, I want him to have puppies because he's a great fuckin dog sorry if hammer and Nash don't agree. I've never lived one second of my life without a bull breed and I've only bred 2 dogs before. My APBT and my American Bulldog. Both litters were excellent puppies and all of them are still in good homes to this day. You know how I know that? Because I was either friends with the owners before or became friends after because I care about the puppies. One of my American Bulldog Pups grew up to be a Champion boar hunter in Alabama, Moral of the story: not every one needs the preaching. :wtg:

[Nash]

Well guess what, most people don't want to bring home old dogs with all kinds of issues when you have other dogs and children in your house, you want a nice puppy that you can develop in to a good dog.


1-Comment above.....My point exactly!

2-I'm sure there have been no bulldogs put down at any of our local SPCA, especially pits.

3-Buying from established breeders ONLY would eventually stop "money making" backyard breeders. Very difficult to do since so many people think it's their "right" to breed and contributing to over populate.

[Nash]

Give me a break man,,, please. We're talking about English Bulldogs here not some mutt at the SPCA. This is a fuckin ridiculous conversation.

No, you were talking about English Bulldogs, I was talking about all dogs.

[1BadRC51]

Well guess what, most people don't want to bring home old dogs with all kinds of issues when you have other dogs and children in your house, you want a nice puppy that you can develop in to a good dog.


1-Comment above.....My point exactly!

2-I'm sure there have been no bulldogs put down at any of our local SPCA, especially pits.

3-Buying from established breeders ONLY would eventually stop "money making" backyard breeders. Very difficult to do since so many people think it's their "right" to breed and contributing to over populate.

How many of those so-called Pit Bulls had papers? :roll: Pit Bull is the catch-all term for Mutts now and it's very ignorant.

Also not a single English Bulldog should ever be put down for lack of a home seeing as how there are several English Bulldog rescues that will take your dog and not put him down and will find a good home no matter how long it takes.

We're going to have to agree to disagree because your lumping me into a category of ignoramus puppy mill profiteer which is totally inappropriate.

[Nash]

Papers or not, the average public idiot sees them as "Pits". Just because we may be educated in dogs doesn't mean everyone else has any idea, or care. Hell, most people getting Pits do so because the dog somehow makes them feel tough.

I've never said anything about a puppy mill and I don't think you're even close. Matter of fact, I think you love your dogs very much but I would categorize you as a backyard breeder. Sorry, but you fit the bill, and it's not to be meant as a personal attack, it's just my opinion. I wish I could talk you out of it but that doesn't look like it'll happen. Do I consider you a bad person or cruel to animals? Not in the slightiest.

Since this discussion started, I've been saying, I feel breeding should be left up to the pros.

[OriginalOne]

I have a male and a female but they are both fixed,, I'm looking to stud my bulldog though,, he has 3 champs in his 3 gen pedigree. :wtg:

He is almost 3 years old and he's never been within a sniff of a female bulldog

i'm not following.

Bulldog's are dumb and a pointless breed, but that's my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree... but how can you argue, he ate a nylabone and a tennis ball...

[1BadRC51]

Now this conversation has degraded to some internet ass hat talking shit about my dog. Wow.

[slosir]

don't you just love how everybody thinks they know more about everything than the "experts". RC, i say rock on, or in this case, let your little guy rock on.

[Nash]

Now this conversation has degraded to some internet ass hat talking shit about my dog. Wow.

Yes, agreed. Pretty cheap.

[Nash]

don't you just love how everybody thinks they know more about everything than the "experts". RC, i say rock on, or in this case, let your little guy rock on.

Sorry you feel this way but at least you help make one of my points.

[OriginalOne]

Now this conversation has degraded to some internet ass hat talking shit about my dog. Wow.

i'm not an internet ass, but that's cool. I just don't see the point in the breed any longer. Sorry for putting my .02 cents out there but this is a forum. I would ask if you even knew what they were bred for but you could probably just google that shit. And I do agree with nash BB breeding isn't a good idea.

I was just wondering why you said you have a male and a female that are fixed and a bulldog you want to stud out. then said he had never even sniffed another female. Are the other two a different breed? My bad if so. On that same note, you said stud him out didn't you? That's usually for just a fee and possibly pick of the litter or something along those lines. That makes me think that you're just in it for the money and don't in fact care about making the breed better.

Do you think the way a dog is raised or it's habits can change the overall tempermant of a dog down the road?