Motorcycles vs. Cars

[thehammer69]

Ready to go somewhere other than Deal's Gap? Well, I thought I'd entertain the idea of going to middle Tennessee for a group ride in the near future (say middle August). The roads are great and there's not all the traffic like in east Tennessee. Post up if interested!

Dave, don't forget about our Seat-Time "driving days" at Roebling Road on August 11 & 12th. It's time for you to re-discover your Z06.

Hammer

[Nash]

Honestly, I'd rather ride in the mountains.

[MrDude_1]

Honestly, I'd rather ride in the mountains.

w00t! *high-five* :wtg:

[thehammer69]

Honestly, I'd rather ride in the mountains.

How do you know? Is it from the previous times you have had the Z on the track? Or are you just afraid? :evillaugh:

Hammer

[Nash]

DJ, if you'd like to discuss cars, we can do so, but please make a topic in the appropriate forum.

Now back to riding motorcycles....

[MrDude_1]

Honestly, I'd rather ride in the mountains.

How do you know? Is it from the previous times you have had the Z on the track? Or are you just afraid? :evillaugh:

Hammer

mountains are scarier.... theres lions and tigers and smokey-da-bears....

[thehammer69]

DJ, if you'd like to discuss cars, we can do so, but please make a topic in the appropriate forum.

Now back to riding motorcycles....

But there is no motorcycle versus car forum....


Hammer

[Nash]

There you are....

[Nash]

How about my bike vs. your Z06 at Roebling?

[MrDude_1]

lol, i see what you've done here..... :wtg:

[Nash]

DJ wants me to take my car to the track with new but inadequate race tires. I do not want to spend 1400 bucks for a set of new supercars or other race ready tires. Could I have fun without the race tires? I'm sure,I would, but I'm not willing to risk my pretty much flawless car with some crap tires.

Dave, as I told you before, you would be out there with an instructor your first time and he's not gonna let you test the limits of those wide Ovals. Furthermore, many have done HPDEs on Wide Ovals and did it without issue. Just because they are not as fast as you would be with full Super cars doesn't mean you can't drive the track safely. It's all about YOUR driving skills and the ability to know your limits...I assume you have some of both.

Hammer

[SUM650]

I'm not willing to risk my pretty much flawless car with some crap tires.



Sounds like a smart decision to me!

[thehammer69]

How about my bike vs. your Z06 at Roebling?

I'd win because I could just rub you a little bit.... :lol:

BTW, I'm not being serious....don't blow it out of proportion

Hammer

[jason 41]

HAHA unless its a full blown race car, the Zo6 has no chance.

[Nash]

How about my bike vs. your Z06 at Roebling?

I'd win because I could just rub you a little bit.... :lol:

BTW, I'm not being serious....don't blow it out of proportion

Hammer

Yes, and I was serious. :wtg:

[MrDude_1]

HAHA unless its a full blown race car, the Zo6 has no chance.


its not hard to make a vette a "full blown race car" performance wise....
and its alot of fun...

that said... id rather do it on the bike.

[thehammer69]

HAHA unless its a full blown race car, the Zo6 has no chance.

What if I was to show you that stock class Z06's have run faster times at Roebling then many motorcycles have? IIRC, in a conversation with Dave a while back, I believe I read where they have run around 1:10's down there. I'd have to look it up later to find actual times.

Hammer

[thehammer69]

How about my bike vs. your Z06 at Roebling?

I'd win because I could just rub you a little bit.... :lol:

BTW, I'm not being serious....don't blow it out of proportion

Hammer

Yes, and I was serious. :wtg:

You can be serious all you want...considering it would never happen if we even wanted to do it.

Hammer

[Nash]

Very true, those IIRC cars would do a number on most bikes.

Anyway, DJ, I made this thread so you'd stop you hijacking the other one.

[thehammer69]

HAHA unless its a full blown race car, the Zo6 has no chance.


its not hard to make a vette a "full blown race car" performance wise....
and its alot of fun...

that said... id rather do it on the bike.

Having driven both bike and car at athe track...yes, the motorcycle is more fun because you are more "in one" with the machine than you would be with a car. But ultimately, four big sticky tires, over two tiny tires, can do it faster if you have the skill.

You see it in the mountains too...some of those fast cars that go to the gap can chew up some bikes up there.

Hammer

[Nash]

Having driven both bike and car at athe track...yes, the motorcycle is more fun because you are more "in one" with the machine than you would be with a car. But ultimately, four big sticky tires, over two tiny tires, can do it faster if you have the skill.

You see it in the mountains too...some of those fast cars that go to the gap can chew up some bikes up there.

Hammer

Oh no, he's comes the smack talk!

But I have to agree, just by the experience running in the Gap.

[MrDude_1]

HA! you may be a mod, but i know a doublepost coverup when i see it... :p

anyway:

HAHA unless its a full blown race car, the Zo6 has no chance.


its not hard to make a vette a "full blown race car" performance wise....
and its alot of fun...

that said... id rather do it on the bike.

Having driven both bike and car at the track...yes, the motorcycle is more fun because you are more "in one" with the machine than you would be with a car. But ultimately, four big sticky tires, over two tiny tires, can do it faster if you have the skill.

You see it in the mountains too...some of those fast cars that go to the gap can chew up some bikes up there.

Hammer


the POTENTIAL for speed on a motorcycle is greater then all but the aerodynamically superior race cars.... the major factor is skill.. we all know that part.

so assuming that we had a magic rider and a magic driver that were both capable of getting the fastest laptimes.... and assuming the car and the bike had equal power to weight.. and assuming that the defining factor of this course was the cornering speed.... the bike would win UNTIL you had a car modified to the point where its downforce grip was much greater then the weight of the car (as in most openwheel cars, and very few touring cars)

up until that point, physics dictate that the lighter, narrower, leaning motorcycle has an advantage.


but in the real world, thats all moot, because none of us are perfect riders/drivers... cars are alot closer to bikes then bikers care to admit, and most courses are open enough that the vehicle that can accelerate fastest gets the quickest laptimes.

[jason 41]

I'll make it real simple, YOUR best lap time vs mine at roebling............... I win.

[Nash]

I'd be real interested to see what a lightly modified Z06 (or other sports car) does around Roebling compared to Jason's times. Put it this way, I talked to some guy at the car show this weekend and he had a stock, but stripped Mazda Miata. He said his best was a 1:24.9 around Roebling! That's from 115hp 1994 Miata!

[the_MAC]

i still think it takes bigger kahones to go faster on a bike...

[Nash]

I agree Mac, and it takes much more overall skill.

[jason 41]

I have a few customers that run thier porshe 911's around there they do 19's which is ok. But thats over three seconds off of what I can do. Not to mention what most of the guys I used to race againts can do. I think the Average club motorcycle racer can wax the Average car racer.

[Nash]

Maybe so, Jason. I haven't seen times to compare, but I'd like to see them.

[MrDude_1]

i think hes saying.. post up your numbers jason... :p

[jason 41]

Go to www.mylaps.com look up roebling road in july WERa 16.4 was my best time that weekend. But my personal best was a 15.9 at frank Kensey track day april 23. I was on michelins........ :smilebig:

[Nash]

No I was saying I haven't seen car times. BUT I did a little research and the T1 cars are running 1:16.0 also.


http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/251965.aspx

[jason 41]

so if the fastest guy in the car race runs a 16. The fastest guy in the 600 supersport race runs a 14. I think we know whos faster.

[mandingo]

Keep in mind that there are shifter carts that run 6, that's right 6 seconds faster than you on your bike at RRR jason. I assure you if you put carl troy in a stock vette he would not only beat your 16 (and my 14) but he would laugh at this thread pertty heavily. :wtg: My money would be on him in the vette against me on the bike. I'm pretty sure gordo would like to take this challenge as well.

[Nash]

Yeah Jason, I think you misunderstood me. The SCCA T1 class was the auotcross guys, not your average road course club racers. If you look for club racing at Roebling, which let's say, the GT1 class, they do around 1:06 to 1:10 all day.

[MrDude_1]

im going off memory here... T1 are the "street" vettes right?

[jason 41]

Well. Thats not realy what i was trying to say. All I was saying was that YOU vs ME at roebling I will go faster. Any body can sit here and talk about how fast someone else can go. Kenny is faster than me and Trey is faster than him. how fast are you. I still think that I would beet you in your car............ And yoiur bike. :wtg:

[MrDude_1]

and im faster then jason...


anyone who doubts this, line up me and jason side by side, and see who gets to the buffet first!

[jason 41]

HAHA! Maybe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrDude_1]

even if you arrived there first, id get to the buffet first......ever see a hockey player get slammed full speed into the glass?

dont get between a fatman and his food.
:lol:

[jason 41]

Hey I used to be fat.... Just ask Kenny.

[Nash]

im going off memory here... T1 are the "street" vettes right?

Pretty much the way I understand it, yeah. DJ will be able to go into more detail about T1, T2 and T3 classes.

[MrDude_1]

im going off memory here... T1 are the "street" vettes right?

Pretty much the way I understand it, yeah. DJ will be able to go into more detail about T1, T2 and T3 classes.

i tried googling it... from the results i know its vettes and vipers, but i cant find the rules or a overview of the class.....

whats the ones that are like F-modified autocross, but on full road courses? (aka what my camaro would be in...)

[the_MAC]

hmm...wonder what a motogp or FACTORY ama bike (and rider, for that matter...) would be capable of at roebling??

[Nash]

Scott Russell used to run his Yamaha on there several years ago. Other than that, I don't if any other teams have been down there.

[mandingo]

moto gp bike at RRR=a very bad day if you off in T1. :crap:

[mandingo]

Track Record=1:12, Geoff May on the Emgo/M4 Suzuki. Aaron Yate's sister was faster than him back in the day at RRR.

[Nash]

So, with all this info I'm getting, the car would win at Roebling. I was actually amazed at how fast the GT1 class can run there.

[mandingo]

So, with all this info I'm getting, the car would win at Roebling. I was actually amazed at how fast the GT1 class can run there.
b-i-n-g-o, b-i-n-g-o, b-i-n-g-o and bingo was his name o :wtg:

[Mike]

Sad but true... four large contact patches, superior aerodynamics, and a big one - downforce, are probably the biggest reasons why cars are faster. It's just as true though that it takes more skill and sack to be fast on a bike, seeing that managing those two small contact patches is much harder, and the price of mismanaging them is so much higher.

[SPQR]

Sad but true... four large contact patches, superior aerodynamics, and a big one - downforce, are probably the biggest reasons why cars are faster. It's just as true though that it takes more skill and sack to be fast on a bike, seeing that managing those two small contact patches is much harder, and the price of mismanaging them is so much higher.

Not to mention you just look cooler on a bike...'nuff said.

[the_MAC]

and you have that addition of a third axis to deal with on a bike...



if i'm not mistaken, dk still has a few records at that track for his former race classes...

[thehammer69]

im going off memory here... T1 are the "street" vettes right?

Pretty much the way I understand it, yeah. DJ will be able to go into more detail about T1, T2 and T3 classes.

Here are some times run by a T1 racer in an 01 Z06 found over at corvetteforum.com:

1:32 at Road Atlanta,
1:42 at CMP,
2:05 at VIR,
1:15 at Roebling,
2:19s at Sebring

So how does that compare to our racers here that have raced at these tracks?

Hammer

[mandingo]

his roebling time is impressive, my best was in the 14's. BUT my VIR time cuts his ass. 1:30.




Unless that's on the full course, then I'll just sit here quietly. :chin:

[mandingo]

If I remember right I did a 21 in Mike K's WRX at one of my trackdays.

[Mike]

If I remember right I did a 21 in Mike K's WRX at one of my trackdays.

That sounds about right. Don't forget that it was on very worn street tires - SZ 50 EP's, with something like 35,000 hard miles on them; they were slick by my second lap (I got to drift unintentionally from then on) and with a leaky turbo (spewing enough smoke to rival an M1 Abrams' smoke generators, which is why they made me pit after just a few laps).

Personally I was hitting >135mph by the first brake marker on the front straight. Not impressive for many, I'm sure, but it was my first track day ever, and like I said, the tires were shit by that point. I did manage the same time as somebody else's race prepped 911, though :smilebig:

Damnit, I'm locking this thread. You fuggers are making me want to get a fast car again :mad:

[thehammer69]

his roebling time is impressive, my best was in the 14's. BUT my VIR time cuts his ass. 1:30.




Unless that's on the full course, then I'll just sit here quietly. :chin:

it's a full course time.

Hammer

[thehammer69]

If I remember right I did a 21 in Mike K's WRX at one of my trackdays.

What do you run at CMP?

Hammer

[mandingo]

I figured that was the full course time, after I posted that. we only run the north course, as far as CMP goes.......I can't remember. Maybe Matt can chime in here. In a car, I've never done CMP, but I bet it's more fun in a car than a bike, CMP SUCKS on a bike. The damn cars have buggered up that track bad. I would like to take the RX7 to RRR, that could be fun. :chin: nah, i would cry if i screwed that car up.