2002 R6 Running Like $h!t...help!!!!!!!!!

[n9623xpilot]

So here I am broken hearted....After a long wait for a new CDI, and pinching my pennies...It does not make the bike run any better. Some of you know the issues I was having from prior posts, but here it is again. Bike will start great, and moves pretty damn good too out of the hole...but as soon as you try to maintain a constant speed its like hanging onto a pissed off bull. It bucks really hard, and its damn near impossible to go over 40mph, and if you dont give er a rev when coming to a stop it will die. I had Derek check it out and this is what he has done:

TPS check
Fuel check
Ignition signal 10mm gap bright check
Minimal leak down
Clean, sync carbs, inspect diaphragms, needle seats, float height
Jump out fuel pump relay
Test all fault switches
Test and replace fuel pump (out of range)
Tank and petcock are clear moving plenty of fuel
Tank is vented properly

I put a new CDI in today, and that didnt change a thing. I checked all the wiring and as far as I can tell with a quick scan, everything appears to be fine. If you have any thoughts as to what could possibly be wrong, please let me know. Oh yeah...One last thing. The bike ran perfect...right until I put Lucas fuel additive into the tank... Coincidence...or the cause of the problem....I do not know....:(:confused::wall:

[fasterthanyours]

Did you ever test the Regulator/Rectifier or the voltage and ohlms coming from the stator?

[ND4SPD]

So here I am broken hearted....After a long wait for a new CDI, and pinching my pennies...It does not make the bike run any better. Some of you know the issues I was having from prior posts, but here it is again. Bike will start great, and moves pretty damn good too out of the hole...but as soon as you try to maintain a constant speed its like hanging onto a pissed off bull. It bucks really hard, and its damn near impossible to go over 40mph, and if you dont give er a rev when coming to a stop it will die. I had Derek check it out and this is what he has done:

TPS check
Fuel check
Ignition signal 10mm gap bright check
Minimal leak down
Clean, sync carbs, inspect diaphragms, needle seats, float height
Jump out fuel pump relay
Test all fault switches
Test and replace fuel pump (out of range)
Tank and petcock are clear moving plenty of fuel
Tank is vented properly

I put a new CDI in today, and that didnt change a thing. I checked all the wiring and as far as I can tell with a quick scan, everything appears to be fine. If you have any thoughts as to what could possibly be wrong, please let me know. Oh yeah...One last thing. The bike ran perfect...right until I put Lucas fuel additive into the tank... Coincidence...or the cause of the problem....I do not know....:(:confused::wall:

Have you drained that fuel and put fresh fuel in?

[DK]

I sent xpilot a pm.

We have done everything minus a known good cdi and swapping out carbs.

I can gain access to a test mule to rectify running condition.

"Call the Shade Tree" ...

Or just bring it by.

DK

[n9623xpilot]

Did you ever test the Regulator/Rectifier or the voltage and ohlms coming from the stator?

I dont believe that it is the regulator/rectifier, because everything I have read about online and in the service manual points at the charging system. I have been having the problem since April and I never had to charge the battery once (even with it sitting for weeks at a time), and it starts great, and will idle all day long. I sure appreciate your input, and with all this being said, if you still think it could be the regulator (with the driveability problems that I am having), well I will go ahead and fork out $70 for a new one, because I just want my damn bike fixed! Thanks.

[n9623xpilot]

Have you drained that fuel and put fresh fuel in?

Yes. The issue originated back in April, and that was the first thing I did (assuming that it was directly related to the Lucas additive). I completely dumped the tank, cleaned the carbs, and ran fresh gas through the fuel lines. Derek has since rebuilt the carbs and put a new fuel pump on it, and I have actually completely drained the tank again. I am currently running a tank mixed with about a gallon of 110 and though it smells nice, it has not helped with any problems (some people told me to run the 110 to "clean" things a bit more)....Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

[fasterthanyours]

I dont believe that it is the regulator/rectifier, because everything I have read about online and in the service manual points at the charging system. I have been having the problem since April and I never had to charge the battery once (even with it sitting for weeks at a time), and it starts great, and will idle all day long. I sure appreciate your input, and with all this being said, if you still think it could be the regulator (with the driveability problems that I am having), well I will go ahead and fork out $70 for a new one, because I just want my damn bike fixed! Thanks.

Just so I understand your verbage. Everything you've found points to the charge system? Or Everything you've found that points to the charging system is fine.

If it's the first one, the stator and the R/R is the charging system. However it sounds like it's working fine. As far as I understand, the R/R controls the voltage to the electrical system while the bikes running and charges the Battery. That being said, it's fairly easy to checking charging voltage and test the Stator when you have the seat off.

I was just wondering if it's ever been checked? All you need is $10 Multi-meter and the Shop manual instructions.

[n9623xpilot]

Just so I understand your verbage. Everything you've found points to the charge system? Or Everything you've found that points to the charging system is fine.

If it's the first one, the stator and the R/R is the charging system. However it sounds like it's working fine. As far as I understand, the R/R controls the voltage to the electrical system while the bikes running and charges the Battery. That being said, it's fairly easy to checking charging voltage and test the Stator when you have the seat off.

I was just wondering if it's ever been checked? All you need is $10 Multi-meter and the Shop manual instructions.

To clarify...Everything related to the regulator/rectifier is a direct component of the charging system (findings from my research). I do not believe that this is associated with my problem, because Derek has put A LOT of time into my bike and from my understanding found the charging system to be fine. I know for a fact he tested the stator because he showed me the voltage at the battery with the engine running, and off. Now, by looking at the wiring diagram it shows current flowing to and through the CDI directly from the regulator/rectifier. Heres my question to anyone who may know... If my R/R is bad, could my stator/charging system be functioning fine, yet not producing the proper amount of voltage to my CDI for it specifically to function properly??? If so, then my money is on the R/R. If the R/R is bad though, I would expect the charging system to function improperly or not at all (which it appears to be functioning fine....). :wall: Keep the input coming...Either way...Look out Derek...That piece of $h!t is more than likely coming back at ya! Sorry in advance........................................... ........

[n9623xpilot]

If anyone has had this exact problem, well then let me know. Otherwise the ever so clever and wise Derek (at a place called "Shade Tree"...from what I am told...) is going to fix my bike. Thanks for all the input, but its time I just hand it over to the professional(s). ;) All I need to do now is figure out what the hell kind of beer Derek drinks..............Everyone likes Ying-a-ling.......Then again at his rates he may keep costs down and brew his own. Now theres a beer I gotta try!

[fasterthanyours]

You've searched all the R6 forums right?

[n9623xpilot]

You've searched all the R6 forums right?

Not Recently...I have in the past, but I am sure I have not searched all of them. I have found a few similar issues, but all the posts were dated from a few years back, and I never got a reply. As I stated previously, if anyone out there has experienced this problem...let me know...PLEASE! In the meantime the bike will be at Shade Tree where it will get fixed. Thanks!

[n9623xpilot]

Still looking for thoughts/ideas/experience on this issue...I am at the one month mark before I leave for deployment...I would love to ride a little before I have to go play in the big sandbox..........:wall:

[Mike]

If it wasn't such a huge liability, and if I knew you better, I'd lend you my bike :crap:

[n9623xpilot]

If it wasn't such a huge liability, and if I knew you better, I'd lend you my bike :crap:

Hmmm...Well, lets meet...We can chill for a bit...I will throw in a case of beer, and there we go. Get a little beer in me and you will know me really well! :chin:

Just kidding, of course. But the fact that you even say that is appreciated. I am sure that Derek can fix my bike...Its just a matter of when he will have time to get to it. I hate to push the man, but maybe I could bring him some cold ones and just bribe him somehow... :smilebig:

[Mike]

Hmmm...Well, lets meet...We can chill for a bit...I will throw in a case of beer, and there we go. Get a little beer in me and you will know me really well! :chin:

Just kidding, of course. But the fact that you even say that is appreciated. I am sure that Derek can fix my bike...Its just a matter of when he will have time to get to it. I hate to push the man, but maybe I could bring him some cold ones and just bribe him somehow... :smilebig:

You have a PM.

[n9623xpilot]

Well heres the most recent update. DK just got a looking at my bike, and swapped out the CDI from a known good running R6 and there was no change. Sounds like he may be going away from "electrical issues" and reverting back to the fuel system (as I originally thought was the culpret). The last I heard he was swapping out the carbs from this good running R6 and slapping it onto my machine. I have yet to hear any word on how that worked out. I would guess that there would still be no change since he has already spent so much time going through my carbs initially and cleaning, tuning, and re-jetting them....:shrug:....

I think he said he is going out of town for a few days and should be back on Tuesday...? Hopefully I know something by then, but if anyone has any thoughts with the current progress, well, please let me know. Thanks.

[gemini]

have you tried different coils? i know you replaced the cdi. not familiar with your bike. i work on cars and your post got me thinking.

[n9623xpilot]

have you tried different coils? i know you replaced the cdi. not familiar with your bike. i work on cars and your post got me thinking.



Well, I do like your thinking...After some research I have found that ignition on R6's had issues. Whether it was the CDI or coils, it was one thing that Yamaha could never get right. They even had a major recall...unfortunately it was on the FI bikes (2003+).

DK checked the coils and deemed them to be good...I suppose that would eliminate them, but who knows.

I do not believe it to be an electrical issue, because the bike ran perfect until I put Lucas fuel additive in the tank. That leads me to believe that the problem lies in the fuel system. After I completely dumped the tank and cleaned it dry; ran three fresh tanks of fuel through it, it still did not run good. I replaced the fuel pump and had DK clean, tune, and jet the carbs. Figured I had eliminated any possibility of the fuel system. :wall:

I have people telling me that the carbs can not physically be cleaned to perfection, and electrical gu-rus telling me that the regulator/rectifier could be bad. I really dont know anymore. I am honestly burned out on this thing, and I regret every second ever buying it. :doh:

I appreciate your input, and with this in mind, let me know what you think. I am purely working off of advice at this point, because I too, am a automotive guy. I used to build drag cars, and I even autocrossed a bit in my day, but I dont have any mechanical experience with motorcycles, so anyones input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.



:shrug:

[ND4SPD]

I don't know DK or his abilities nor am I questioning them so please don't think this is an insult.

That being said, have you taken it to a certified Yamaha mechanic at a Yamaha dealership to have them look at it? It's pretty obvious you've tried everything you both could think of, and more.

[gemini]

how does the bike sound when it runs like crap? any popping? from intake or exaust? does it bogg down? i've seen coils, just like high dollar cummins injectors, that pass all test but still be the problem. i had my ass cut not long ago on a big truck like what you are going through. does your bike use a fuel filter? did you double check plug wires(if your bike uses them)? does the bike blow black smoke when it runs bad?

if you are still concerned that it might a charging issue, get a volt meter and hook it up and go ride. be safe about it. can you unplug the rectifier on these bikes and ride with no ill effects?

remember, no matter what kind of bike, it still uses the same process, suck, squeeze, bang, blow.

so that brings only 3 parts to the equation. fuel, spark, compression. i wonder if you got a valve(s) hanging.

[n9623xpilot]

I don't know DK or his abilities nor am I questioning them so please don't think this is an insult.

That being said, have you taken it to a certified Yamaha mechanic at a Yamaha dealership to have them look at it? It's pretty obvious you've tried everything you both could think of, and more.

Well, to be quite honest here...I really dont know DK or his abilities either, but I wouldnt want to insult the guy on his own website. But the facts are thus: Over two months of time with it at his shop, and a lot of parts swapping.

I was ready to take it to Yamaha, but they wanted to leave my bike outside...not impressed. I got a message from DK on here and he told me he could fix it and to bring it by................................................ ...

I am waiting for him to return from his vacation so I know the results of the "carb swapping" procedure he performed. Until then, I can only wait. As much as I would love to go and blow more of my hard earned money at a Yamaha dealership, I just dont have the money or the time right now. I deploy in less than 30 days now.

I really dont know where to go with this damn thing anymore...I may just sell it before deployment....It seems unfixable..... :mad:

[n9623xpilot]

how does the bike sound when it runs like crap? any popping? from intake or exaust? does it bogg down? i've seen coils, just like high dollar cummins injectors, that pass all test but still be the problem. i had my ass cut not long ago on a big truck like what you are going through. does your bike use a fuel filter? did you double check plug wires(if your bike uses them)? does the bike blow black smoke when it runs bad?

if you are still concerned that it might a charging issue, get a volt meter and hook it up and go ride. be safe about it. can you unplug the rectifier on these bikes and ride with no ill effects?

remember, no matter what kind of bike, it still uses the same process, suck, squeeze, bang, blow.


so that brings only 3 parts to the equation. fuel, spark, compression. i wonder if you got a valve(s) hanging.

The bike sounds like its bogging down and backfiring with absolutely no power beyond 20mph. Its definately popping (backfiring) and its through the exhaust. As a matter of fact, right before I brought it back to DK, while I was riding a friend of mine noticed that it will shoot a blue flame out of the muffler. It also blows quite a bit of smoke...Black smoke specifically. So what does all of this mean?? Its running rich, right?! DUH! I am not a God of engines, but this is not my first weiny roast. According to DK it is running lean.........:shrug:

Yes, the bike has an inline fuel filter, and I replaced it. If memory serves me right DK checked the coils and deemed them to be good. I really dont think that its an electrical issue, that was the track that DK was going down. As far as a valve....I thought of that too, but DK didnt think it was a mechanical issue. It makes some sense, but not much, considering the bike ran mint before the fuel additive. I wouldnt think that fuel cleaner would hose up a valve. But who knows, all logic on this POS has been pushed aside, as far as I can tell. Sure, its still suck, squeeze, bang, blow, but apparently that doesnt apply on a motorcycle.........:crying:

With this added knowledge, maybe you have more thoughts....I have been trying to think of everything I have done up to this point so I dont keep shooting you down with "yeah, I did that already" because I really appreciate the input...

Oh yeah...Replaced the plugs too...the old ones were black (running rich, right?!!?) I cleaned the air filter, and even tried riding without it in, just to see if it was the culprit...Didnt phase the bike. Multiple CDI's have been on the bike, and DK has gone through the wiring....I guess not much else to tell..................:wall:

[ND4SPD]

I was ready to take it to Yamaha, but they wanted to leave my bike outside...not impressed.

Would their insurance cover it?

[gemini]

a nice easy test to try and check for exaust valve issue is to start the bike and bring the rpms. rest your hand fingers across the exaust. they never should feel as if the exaust is being pulled back into the muffler.

i mean no disrespect to DK either. just throwing out ideas.

where does the cdi get it's spark input, cam? crank? is that tight and in good working order?

now keep in mind, everything i am throwing out is based off of knowledge of pushrod motors and other chrylser crap. might not be possible for a valve to hang open.

[n9623xpilot]

Would their insurance cover it?


Who knows. The guy was an asshole, and I walked out. Regardless if the insurance covered it or not though, I wouldnt want my bike sitting outside right next to Dorchester...Pretty much a gaurantee that it would get stolen. Not necessarily a bad thing in my case :evillaugh:....But, I dont have the time, nor would I want to, deal with insurance claims and all that bullshit that it would entail.

[n9623xpilot]

a nice easy test to try and check for exaust valve issue is to start the bike and bring the rpms. rest your hand fingers across the exaust. they never should feel as if the exaust is being pulled back into the muffler.

i mean no disrespect to DK either. just throwing out ideas.

where does the cdi get it's spark input, cam? crank? is that tight and in good working order?

now keep in mind, everything i am throwing out is based off of knowledge of pushrod motors and other chrylser crap. might not be possible for a valve to hang open.


Sounds like we're in the same boat. I have worked on pushrod motors (ya know, real engines...not these new matchbox toys...) for years, and this damn bike doesnt make any sense. I think it gets input from a crank sensor, then the CDI decides what kind of spark and timing to give the coils, based on throttle position and engine RPM. The TPS checks good, and supposively if the crank sensor was bad it wouldnt run at all (I have experienced that on cars). I checked out the crank sensor, and cleaned it up and checked to ensure it was tightly mounted...All checked good. I would expect a call from DK either today or tomorrow on word if the carb swap worked or not.....

[mccutch2u]

how many miles have you put on that bike since you put the additive in it...........basically here not sure that this may be it but maybe when you put that additive in it loosened up alot of carbon build up that would in turn o exactly what you describe and you would have to run the hell out of it for about 50-75 miles or so to completely burn it off I know that when I have done some fuel injection cleanings the carbon buildup wopuld loosen and have to be burned out which sometimes took and hour or so of driving it at 60+ mph but would smoke like hell for that amount of time but you would need to add alot of additive and you may have considering the average additive treats 25+ gallons

[mccutch2u]

something you may try is taking the plugs out and spaying parts cleaner into the cylinders while turning the motor over to clean out the crap

[mccutch2u]

especially with how black you say the plugs were

[mccutch2u]

i looked at their website and they call for 5.25oz to 25 gallons so if you put a whole bottle in there you definitely may be burning some carbon which will take a while to burn off i hope that this is not the case because of what you have been through but hope it is so you can get done with this

[n9623xpilot]

i looked at their website and they call for 5.25oz to 25 gallons so if you put a whole bottle in there you definitely may be burning some carbon which will take a while to burn off i hope that this is not the case because of what you have been through but hope it is so you can get done with this


Thanks for the input...It would be nice if this was the case. When I changed the plugs, I did spray down the cylinders, and tried to clean everything up...I am not sure if its carbon build up though. I cant even do 60mph if I tried! I am lucky to go over 45mph, and I can only sustain about 30mph.

Doesnt necessarily mean that it is not carbon build up, but I have my doubts. I will try cleaning it again...cant hurt...

[n9623xpilot]

Oh, and to answer your previous question....I have put over 100 miles on it since the additive...Probably close to 200....I think that it would all be burned out by now...

[n9623xpilot]

I even put some 110 octane in it about a month ago, hoping that would clean any residual shit out of there, but as much as the bike seemed to like it, it was not the "magic fix" that some people claimed.

I thought about throwing seafoam in there, and seeing how that does...It scares me to run more shit through my engine at this point...But I have always been a fan of seafoam......I bet Mike is my new best friend now that he knows I like seafoam, possibly as much as him......:D

[mccutch2u]

seafoam is good shit but I would stay away from all additives until you have it figured out when did you say dk was going to try the known good carbs

[Booty Freak]

One word can fix all your problems



Honda :lmao:

[n9623xpilot]

seafoam is good shit but I would stay away from all additives until you have it figured out when did you say dk was going to try the known good carbs


Last I heard from DK was last Thursday...Thats when he was going to try the known good carbs.....


No word yet.......

[n9623xpilot]

One word can fix all your problems



Honda :lmao:



Wouldnt that just be adding more problems???

I am thinking two words to fix all my problems.....




FOR SALE! :D

[n9623xpilot]

Anyone know what happened to DK???

I have been trying to get a hold of him for the past few days...left some messages...no response....

[Mike]

He posted that he'd be gone until Tuesday (29th); that also happens to be his last logon time.

[DK]

Bruanworth, Braunworth, Braunworth ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[n9623xpilot]

Braunwarth?

[DK]

Call me. :lol:

[n9623xpilot]

Answer! :lol:

[DK]

:crap:

Active signal. Just call.

[n9623xpilot]

Well.................

So after some extremely extensive and technical labor on the part of DK, the bike still runs like shit. The first thing I would like to note is that I brought DK a real POS of a motorcycle, and I put him under a very strenuous workload. I NEEDED my bike back by a certain date (due to deployment) and DK did everything in his power to resolve the issue and get it back to me in a timely manner while working his ass off on everyone elses toys too. He swapped EVERY electrical sensor, switch and components from a good running R6 and even went the extra mile to swap carbs. No dice. He also checked all functions of the engine itself, and guess what...suck, squeeze, bang and blow are all there and function fine...well, with the exception of the bang apparently. It bangs, just not like she should.

At this point DK has officially ruled everything out with the exception of the actual wiring (Please correct me if I am wrong DK...), so in the interest of time (and lots of other jobs to accomplish) DK was unable to go through the entire harness(s). Therefore it looks like thats where I stand.

As always, any input or advice is greatly appreciated.

THANK YOU DK, AS ALWAYS, FOR YOUR DEDICATION AND WORK ON THIS POS. I HONESLTY FEEL BAD BRINGING IT TO YOU. YOU DA MAN! :hail:

[n9623xpilot]

Oh...and another thing.

Even though this thing is a POS, I would like to take care of it. I deploy next week and will be gone for about 5 months. Anything I should do with the bike while I am gone? It will be sitting in my car port on base, so I thought about getting a cover for it, but I didnt know if anything else may be neccesary to preserve the engine (fogging oil, etc.) Please let me know what should be done before I go. Thanks, ya'll!

[fasterthanyours]

Keeping it on a trickle charger should be all you need to do.

[fasterthanyours]

Here's your wiring harness.

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-5MT-82590-10-00.html

http://www.ronayers.com/browseparts.cfm?SearchString=5MT-82590-10-00&adv=5&kw=fiche.ronayers.com

[DK]

Drain or oil up your carbs and fuel pump. Just use Funnel tip on 10 W 40 engine oil and squeeze down into intake fuel line before fuel pump. Pump will ingest oil and pump it into carbs. Oil will not evaporate like fuel and leave all the nasty deposits if cleared out in less than 11 months or so.

2 stroke fogging oil for your cylinders. Just punch starter button with plug caps removed, but grounded. Suck it in and soak the sucker.

Wash and cover bike.

Anyhow, hope you can find a cheap used harness or a decent one when you return. Jumping, relays, replacing diodes, Jumping all safety switches as well as ignition switch, CDI, pick up coil swapping carbs and all. It was a nightmare, and sad to think we didn't knock the thing out of the park. At least we isolated the problem, so wiring harness and T AH D AH .........

I worked like a hamster in a wheel with this thing, but glad we figured it out.

DK

[fasterthanyours]

There's a salvage place in Sumter, SC that might be able to find one for you.

[n9623xpilot]

Bike fixed!!!


Clean fuel system...$$

oil change...$

clean spark plugs...$$

sync carbs....$$$

having a good running bike again....priceless!!!


:d

[fasterthanyours]

Congrats, I have to wait on taxes to fix mine.