SC Helmet Law - maybe?

[t-cell]

FYI -

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/story/528419.html
Motorcycle deaths on the rise in S.C.
By Lisa Fleisher and Janelle Frost
lfleisher@thesunnews.com jfrost@thesunnews.com

Motorcycle-related deaths jumped 40 percent from 2003 to 2007 and are expected to keep climbing as gas prices rise and more people buy motorcycles, according to an analysis released Monday from AAA Carolinas.

Only 4 percent of registered vehicles in the state are motorcycles, but bikes are involved in 11 percent of all fatal crashes, AAA reported. Sixty-two percent of motorcycle fatalities in 2007 happened in Horry, Greenville and Charleston counties, AAA said.

"With an increase in motorcycle sales this year, the number of motorcycle fatalities will undoubtedly rise," David Parsons, chief executive and president of AAA Carolinas, said in a statement.

Parsons also blamed S.C.'s partial helmet law for the deaths, citing Department of Public Safety statistics that showed that 75 percent of people who died on motorcycles in the past five years were not wearing a helmet. S.C. law only requires riders younger than 21 to wear a helmet.

S.C. Rep. Tracy Edge, R-North Myrtle Beach, said he thinks a helmet law makes sense and will push for one next year.

Parsons also called for mandatory training courses for people who want motorcycle licenses.

"It just makes sense for the safety of both the motorcyclist and other motorists," Parsons said.

Richard "Roach" Mercer, area coordinator of ABATE of S.C., or A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments, said people do need to be trained to ride motorcycles. He said the lack of training is more of an issue than making it mandated for people older than 21 to wear helmets.

"We don't want a mandated helmet law," Mercer said. "It's a freedom of choice issue. People got to be trained to ride motorcycles." They get on bikes and kill themselves."

A campaign was recently started to promote riders to get extra training, said Lance Cpl. Sonny Collins with the state Highway Patrol.

"We found that most motorcyclists in crashes were not experienced riders," Collins said. We tell motorcyclists to protect your body like your bike. Their bikes always look good and shiny, but they don't give the same attention to themselves."

Motorists, too, need more education about driving safely around motorcyclists, Parsons said.

It is essential that both motorcyclists and other motorists know how to share the road, he said.

[Scootimus]

Well, it wouldn't hurt my feelings that fact that helmets would be mandatory I wear mine all the time. I just hate it when the man MAKES me wear a helmet. Hell, it's just natural selection!

[MrDude_1]

if the effort that went into helmet laws went into other, more productive things, the world would be a much better place.

[fasterthanyours]

The problem with all the residents of Myrtle Beach being so against anything to do with Motorcycles is the fact that Black Bike Week screws up everything that the Harley week tries not to do. The reason there are hardly any accidents during BBW is because traffic congestion is at overflow, you can't go anywhere.

[mccutch2u]

if the effort that went into helmet laws went into other, more productive things, the world would be a much better place.

honestly I don't think much effort has been made to pass a helmet law and I for one would feel that it would be productive especially considering that a helmet has saved my life more than once

everyone bitched about having to wear seatbelts before but now that it is law I don't hear anyone bitching hell it is such a habit now that you don't even think twice about it why would it not be the same for a helmet

[MrDude_1]

honestly I don't think much effort has been made to pass a helmet law and I for one would feel that it would be productive especially considering that a helmet has saved my life more than once

everyone bitched about having to wear seatbelts before but now that it is law I don't hear anyone bitching hell it is such a habit now that you don't even think twice about it why would it not be the same for a helmet

ok. lets say it passes.
then you get biker groups (not motorcyclists... hint, hint..) going on trying to get it repelled.

lets say it fails.
then you get safety advocates (not motorcyclists... hint, hint..) going on trying to get it enacted.



either way, if either of the groups spent the time on more important issues, the world would be a better place. i really dont care if its enacted or not.. ive ridden my bike less then a handful of times without a helmet in years... and it kinda sucks.

helmet law isnt worth arguing about one way or another to me.. whats annoying though is that out of of all the things the motorcycle rights activists could/should be arguing about, helmet law should be near the bottom.

my personal view? i dont like unnecessary laws. i always buckle up, but i dont like seatbelt laws either. people should have the right to make stupid choices... its society's right(responsibility??) to educate, and inform the public of the smart choice, but ultimately the choice (and consequences) should be left to the individual.

[mccutch2u]

your right people should be able to make the right decisions but that is why we have every law in the book is because people or should I say some people don't make the right decision that goes from riding on the right side of the road to stopping at an intersection

now the next thing is lets say they keep things the way they are and the death rates go up the next guy that dies on a bike (or in a car ) did not just effect him but it effects you me and society. So why should we not govern these things to prevent that from happening.

Now for those of you that say it does not effect you here are a few ways that it does:


1 we pay for the people who respond to the scene
2 we pay for the coroner and investigation
3 their insurance has to pay out so who gets to reimburse the insurance companies we do,, our insurance rates don't only increase by what we do but what everyone else is doing to so think about that next time you can't afford full coverage

[Mike]

4 If they're not killed but crippled, the cost of long term care can be staggering, and someone (ultimately we) has to pay for it

[MrDude_1]

Now for those of you that say it does not effect you here are a few ways that it does:


1 we pay for the people who respond to the scene
2 we pay for the coroner and investigation
3 their insurance has to pay out so who gets to reimburse the insurance companies we do,, our insurance rates don't only increase by what we do but what everyone else is doing to so think about that next time you can't afford full coverage

we pay for 1, 2 and 3 everytime someone stops paying attention in their car to answer the phone. everytime that mom stops paying attention to driving because of the kids in the backseat.. everytime ANY accident happens.

it just so happens that motorcycle ones are fatal ones.

heres a question though... in the stats above, of the ones who died without a helmet, how many had life ending injuries outside of the head? id bet a large percentage include them. atleast, every study ever done that included that has shown to be true. a helmet doesnt save everything..


honestly, the ONLY arguement i ever hear about this subject, to justify the law is what you just said.. rather then retype, heres a copy/paste from me yesterday on another forum:

yet.. i still know its a choice. its a choice people are too focused on too. the millions spent every year arguing over helmets could better be spend on rider education. rider rights (BESIDES HELMETS), and other more useful endeavors.
rather you have two sides arguing about something that boils down to a truly personal decision.
i know, every time i sit on that bike, my life is in my hands with my choices.... and that, regardless whos fault an accident is, i put myself there. i can do everything right, and die. i can do everything wrong and live. i am taking a chance, and there are times when the cost/benefit ratio makes me question myself.
but in the end, ive had the education, ive seen the experiences of others, good and bad(lots of bad), and i still believe in the right to make a choice.
educate others. share experiences. but dont get pissy if someone still doesnt do it. you cant teach everyone... so be sure to teach those willing/able to learn, dont waste your time trying to teach the unteachable.


someones reply(condensed):
And insurance rates increase as a whole across the board the more they pay out the more they charge everybody.

my reply:
actually thats not how insurance works.. makes sense, but insurance runs off numbers and policys, not sense.
so someone wrecking a CBR600 does not effect the rates of anyone riding a husky, KTM, DRZ, or even the rate of someone riding a CBR1000.

:thumbup:


now if you want to talk medical bills paid by the state, you're better off taking the helmets off of everyone and using their helmet money on other (off topic) problems, relating to that. theres alot to bitch about there.

btw, having seen stuff, and being realistic, if anything ever happens to me, im covered for half a mill of medical, and if i dont pull through, my moms house, will be paid off, with enough left over for another house and a funeral.

now ask yourself... are YOU paying for that? if you go wrack up $400,000 in medical, are you still overcovered?
off that logic, i probably can call 99% of the people on this board irresponsible.

he goes on the same subject..public cost.. my reply

what about cell phones, and every other million things people do that cause accidents?
people getting hurt is a fact of life. the government paying for it is how we're setup. no matter what.

if no motorcyclists died or were injured, if all were wearing helmets, you would still have the exact same problem... just deal with it and move on.. or atleast bring up a different point. if you only have one, its a weak argument.

[Sweetruss]

Mr. Dude, sometimes government has to make laws to protect it's citizens. Or protect people against themselves. The seatbelt law is in effect because it has provent to save more lives when used, then not used. And you don't always put your choices in your hands when you ride your bike, you put it in the hands of all the other vehicles that will be around you.

The helment law is the samething. More people would live through an accident with a helment then without.

I'm for a helmet law. There are several different styles and types so every rider should be able to find one that fits he/she and is comfortable.

[Booty Freak]

In the terrible event of a death via motorcycle accident a helmet
only guarantee's one thing.

A open casket funeral.

Without a helmet closed casket for you. :nay:

[MrDude_1]

Mr. Dude, sometimes government has to make laws to protect it's citizens. Or protect people against themselves. The seatbelt law is in effect because it has provent to save more lives when used, then not used. And you don't always put your choices in your hands when you ride your bike, you put it in the hands of all the other vehicles that will be around you.

The helment law is the samething. More people would live through an accident with a helment then without.

I'm for a helmet law. There are several different styles and types so every rider should be able to find one that fits he/she and is comfortable.

fuck protecting people from themselves. its one of the most idiotic ideas modern society has come up with.
people need to die. its not politically correct, but its true.


and its MY CHOICE to put myself out there in the hands of all the other vehicles that will be around you...
if ditsy-miss-teenybopper pulls out on me at the last second because she didnt see me, and i splatter my guts all over her VW bug, its just because she didnt see me.
she wasnt out to kill me, and id hope no one would prosecute her as such.
it was MY choice to be out there to begin with. now shes at fault and should pay for my med bills, etc.. (and by that i mean her insurance) should i live, she should be buying me a new bike too.
but either way, IM the one who decided to be out there on the bike. its a personal choice of responsibility. you of all people russ should be able to respect that. we all know you want to ride... but you made the responsible choice to not put yourself out there when others depend on you, and thats something that i think everyone can respect.
i am making the same choice, and it would be nice if everyone would respect my decision to ride in the same way.

[Sweetruss]

As long as my paycheck is having state/fed taxes taken out, I think I still am allowed to voice my opinion. And had I not had on my helmet when I hit the dog, I would be dead right now no doubt about it. Was the dog going to buy me a new bike or pay my medical bills or better yet, tell my mom/dad sorry? It didn't have a dog tag so who knows who it belong to. We could argue all day about a helmet law but when it's all over, I'm still going to be right when I say more life's would be saved if the rider was wearing a helmet. Travis when have kids I promise you evertime the kid leaves the house, your going to want them to have on a helmet. You can talk about choices all day but the fact is wearing a helment increases your chances of living. I'm pro-living in my old age.

Remember that it's not a choice in SC to drive, its a privilege.

[Sweetruss]

i am making the same choice, and it would be nice if everyone would respect my decision to ride in the same way.

Dude, you ever think that we just love you too much and don't want anything to happen to you....?:pals:

[MrDude_1]

As long as my paycheck is having state/fed taxes taken out, I think I still am allowed to voice my opinion. And had I not had on my helmet when I hit the dog, I would be dead right now no doubt about it. Was the dog going to buy me a new bike or pay my medical bills or better yet, tell my mom/dad sorry? It didn't have a dog tag so who knows who it belong to. We could argue all day about a helmet law but when it's all over, I'm still going to be right when I say more life's would be saved if the rider was wearing a helmet. Travis when have kids I promise you evertime the kid leaves the house, your going to want them to have on a helmet. You can talk about choices all day but the fact is wearing a helment increases your chances of living. I'm pro-living in my old age.

Remember that it's not a choice in SC to drive, its a privilege.

you're going a little too far there russ... im 100% pro helmet. everyone should wear it. All of us are glad you had it on.
your insurance should pay your med bills...
and i agree, lives would be saved if everyone was earing a helmet.

but its still a choice.

dont forget, when we say helmet, we're talking a REAL, made to protect you, full face helmet.
the idiot cruiser riders.... will still be wearing nothing. sure, their beanie will have a DOT sticker on it.. but it wont protect shit. they still die the same way.
but the sad part will be the guys that would have worn a black full face helmet.. but instead opted for the same spiked beanie that their friends wear....
in every state where theres a helmet law, i see alot of crap helmets.. here.. not so much, they mostly carry real helmets, since thats what people buy...

just like rider training.. i believe strongly in that too.. yet, if you made it mandatory, it would just become a joke.. you pay your money, you pass... no learning.

its a choice. it should be a choice.. you make a law.. and guess what? its STILL a choice.

[Carolina Princess]

I totally agree with the fact that a driving course and helmets are great ideas, but if they are going to make a motorcyclist take a driving course, then wouldn't it also make sense to have a person driving a 4 wheeled vehicle take a course on 'how not to run into our ass'? It seems like everytime I hear about a bike wreck, there is usually some part of it where a driver turned in front of a biker. And I was in one that almost killed me and another person. Was it my fault or the other biker? No. Someone turned in front of us. There was no time to react. The same someone that turned in front of us was on-duty with her job as pizza delivery. As she stepped out of her car, she was on the cell phone and heard saying, "I got into another wreck." So if they want me to take a safety course fine, but my point still remains... when will they put something out there for 4 wheeled vehicles??? There's not even anything on the permit or driving test about motorcycles.

[mccutch2u]

don't you have to take a course now to get alicense as a teen?

[Carolina Princess]

They have the defensive driving course in high school, but if it's anything like it was when I took it, it's straight out of the 70's. Plus, I've taken a defensive driving class outside of high school and it didn't really cover motorcycles.

[Chris]

"Mr. Dude, sometimes government has to make laws to protect it's citizens. Or protect people against themselves."

I don't think there has been a single post here that I can think of that I personnally disagree and agree with more in the same paragraph.

I don't want my goverment to think for me...Or pay my bills....Or pay my house off when I decide to overindulge....and to that end I don't want it doing those things for anyone else....

I only want the government to provide me with services that I cannot feasibly provide for my self ...ie protection from foreign governments (which I am willing to both serve and pay for this service)....public infastructures (roadways/utilities)....and a standard of national commerce or cooperation among states....all of which I am still willing to pay for...

I don't understand those who fight for a helmet law or fight for a seat belt law or a smoking ban or alcohol or drugs for that matter.....

WHY NOT FIGHT FOR RESPONSIBILITY ....

HERE'S A LAW I WANT TO SEE

If YOU choose to not wear a helmet and get injured and YOU don't have insurance or the money to pay YOUR bill YOU won't get medical attention...and YOUR family won't receive social security or aid.

Now society no longer bears the beardon for YOUR choices and I am no longer restricted in my freedoms based on YOU.

Everyone wants freedom and rights but not the responsibilites that goes along with them... and just that statement the "the government should protect me from myself" is the entire problem.....

[Chris]

Or about this.....

Free drugs.....

If the federal government would decide to take all the money in fighting the drug wars and place it in production and free "clinics" providing the availability of those "drugs" to people who wished to use them we could completely DESTROY the drug trade and all it's negatives....

I realize use would initially skyrocket and there would need to be age restrictions but after the shallow end of the gene pool chlorinated itself we could move forward......

[n9623xpilot]

I wear a helmet 100% of the time when I ride. A helmet law would not affect me. However, I think that people should be given the choice. Riding a motorcycle allots one to be more free. No windshield (in some cases), no doors, no "walls", not much of anything really. Capping someone off with a brain bucket takes away a certain freedom (and right) that some motorcyclists desire.

What I think needs to happen is all of these piss poor drivers in this state (specifically Charleston) need to grow a damn brain and learn how to drive. Lets spend more time teaching people that using a turn signal IS THE LAW, stopping at red lights IS THE LAW, obeying road signs IS THE LAW, yielding the right of way IS THE LAW, keeping a safe driving distance between you and the car in front of you IS THE LAW, following the speed limit, and staying in the right lane if you chose to drive slower IS THE DAMN LAW!

By following the laws that are provided would significantly reduce accidents all around, and just maybe reduce motorcycle accidents by 11%, and 62% in Charleston. Did anyone think of that?! Oh yeah, and if the damn police out there would realize that they are not above the law and follow the law themselves (perhaps ticket the assholes that refuse to obey the law) then that would make everyones lives better...well, except for the assholes that choose not to follow the law.

In conclusion, if you are a Charleston schmuck that sucks at driving...well, learn the rules of the road and obey them. If you ride a motorcycle and choose not to wear a brain bucket...then you shouldnt have to.

[Chris]

agreed........

[dumwinnie]

great points from travis, chris and xpilot. i'm all about the freedom and choice. y'all have probably never seen me on my bike without helmet, but that's beside the point. i'm not going to say the same thing thats been said 2 or 3 times already but i have said the same words many times....."after the shallow end of the gene pool chlorinated itself we could move forward......" the govt. needs to step aside, let natural selection (or unnatural-stupid-decision-based selection) take its course and the world WILL be a better place.

chris, in a perfect world, the legalization would be a great idea, but you know how pockets in govt officials are. they would find a way to benefit.

[Turbo speed]

I got tiered of bitching about it. so I now call it Evolution.... Darwin at work.... self correcting problem.

[Chris]

probably so....the other issue is there's always gonna be crime....if you take away the drug trade then other activities will increase to subsidize the loss.......i'd still like to see the idiots thin themselves out a little....

[dumwinnie]

the govt. needs to implement "kill cards." ok, here's how it would work.
-you're allowed 2 kills per year, no questions asked.
-you must contact law enforcement immediately and have them punch your card and take your information for PUBLIC record. if not reported within 1/2 hour of the kill, you will be killed.
-if you take an extra life ouside of the year, you shall be killed.

ok, immediately this sounds a little ridiculous, but think about it. we all say we'd like to kill someone. but knowing that their family, friends, etc. will also have kill cards along with the knowledge of who killed their family, friend, or whatever the case, will make you less likely to act on it. it will also cause you to act a little less "stupid" (for example, road rage) because some people just don't care and now they can legally kill you.

[MrDude_1]

if i kill someone and they have kills left, can i take their kill card?

what if you kill the officer, then take his card puncher?

[dumwinnie]

no, you can not take their kills, they expire with the life.

thats fine, but the officer is your second kill just notify the officer next to him, he'll be happy to punch your card. depends how good of friends they were, he may let you have his weapon, also.

[n9623xpilot]

the govt. needs to implement "kill cards." ok, here's how it would work.
-you're allowed 2 kills per year, no questions asked.
-you must contact law enforcement immediately and have them punch your card and take your information for PUBLIC record. if not reported within 1/2 hour of the kill, you will be killed.
-if you take an extra life ouside of the year, you shall be killed.

ok, immediately this sounds a little ridiculous, but think about it. we all say we'd like to kill someone. but knowing that their family, friends, etc. will also have kill cards along with the knowledge of who killed their family, friend, or whatever the case, will make you less likely to act on it. it will also cause you to act a little less "stupid" (for example, road rage) because some people just don't care and now they can legally kill you.


This does exist...or at least did....

Its called civil war. The only difference is that in the context that its governed, this would turn into a civil war of "smarts" and "stupids". Most certainly all the smart people would act immeadiatly, while the stupids would mope around thinking about what happened. If we all combine our kill cards, we could take out a lot of assholes fairly quick. The only problem is there are some smart assholes out there.......I may be one of them......:evillaugh:

[lawrider1]

It is the law now that teens have to take a drivers course to get their lic. As for the high school courses.....budgets are causing some of the schools to cut out this program (no matter how lame it is) There are some worth while schools out there for 4 wheelers. 911 driving school is one in Mt P. That franchise is "Owned by Cops, Taught by Cops". Who better to teach your kids the right and wrong way to drive than by a cop.

As for the Helmet / Training school discussion: I used to believe it should be a choice and often did not wear a helmet. (My younger days) Being a fatality investigator for the PD and seeing how many people COULD possibly still be alive if they had worn a helmet as well as being an MSF instructor and maybe getting a little smarter with age....I now wear one all the time. I know many people on this site are Military...... Would you go into Iraq or Afghanistan without a helmet? People there are trying to kill you right? Well people here are not necessarily TRYING to kill you but they do drive with their heads up their asses. Can we change that? Can we make them drive better either by a law or with enforcement? Maybe some will change, some for just a while until the course or the ticket memory fades but then they will go back to the way they were before. We can't be responsible for them but what we can do is be responsible for ourselves and do WHATEVER it takes to keep us alive. If that means wearing a helmet, if that means taking a course then that is what we should do. Will a law change that? Maybe, maybe not but the important thing is that we ride as safe as we can, ride with good sense, Educate ourselves, and enjoy the ride. (Anyone recognize that from the MSF course :))

Maybe a solution could be to pass a law that if you want to ride without a helmet then to do so legally you have to take a safety course, so that you at least make an educated decision before you go out there and ride like hell with no helmet on. Just a thought.......

[mccutch2u]

I am for a helmet law i belive in choice but in this world it is not worth making th wrong one